Cure for Bad Speech is Shut the Hell Up, Experts Say
On one level, I can sort of see what Fred Barnes is driving at in his post-Imus commentary:
“I think they make one huge mistake, and that is going to meet with Don Imus. They don’t need to meet with him. They ought to flick him off like a mosquito and move on and be proud, instead of acting as they did today. They acted like victims. They’re winners. They should act like winners.”
There’s no reason that the Rutgers women should necessarily give Imus the time of day. He needs them more than they need him now. Eugene Robinson of the Post said this morning on Tony Kornheiser’s show that he worried that the structure of meeting with Imus inevitably tended to cast the Rutgers team in the “magic Negro” role, with the whole thing becoming about Imus’ journey of discovery and them reduced to his psychopomp. Driving Mister Nasty, as it were.
But! To the extent that Barnes thinks they should have taken “the high road,” he’s an ass. Because, for one thing, the women were victims. Don Imus and his odious sidekick McGuirk metaphorically dropped out of the sky on them and carried them away from the life they expected to be living this week. They already had to deal with the crushing disappointment of losing the tournament finals, and all of a sudden, through no fault or doing of their own, they get dragged into another of America’s racial circuses by a couple of famous bigots looking for cheap laughs. I feel safe in guessing that none of them intended to spend their week this way.
And, as Imus’ civil libertarian defenders are saying this week, in classic paraphrase, “the cure for bad speech is more speech.” Who the hell is more entitled to “more speech” than the women Imus and crew slagged off?? I can’t think of anybody.
The bigger ass is actually Morton Kondracke, though he echoes Imus himself, some of Imus’ defenders and some social critics hitching their preoccupations to the controversey:
Responding to Barnes, Kondracke said, “That sounds correct. On the other hand, they live in a — they do live in a culture where a ‘ho’ is a commonly tossed-around term. … By whom? By the rap music industry, by black men, largely.” Kondracke’s statement echoed Imus’ own non-defense of his comments that the phrase “nappy-headed hos” “originated in the black community” and that “I may be a white man, but I know that … young black women all through that society are demeaned and disparaged and disrespected … by their own black men and that they are called that name.”
Kevin Drum finds the linkage between the kind of language used in hiphop culture and the Imus controversy “seems to make sense to an awful lot of people, black and white alike.” Atrios insists that
the fact that rap contains misogynistic lyrics has nothing to do with what Don Imus said. Absolutely nothing. Zero. Zip. If the Imus affair goes on to inspire this wider conversation, great, but this isn’t about Fifty Cent lyrics. It’s about Don Imus calling the Rutgers Women’s Basketball Team “nappy-headed hoes.”
The offensive thing about Kondracke and Imus using the argument is that it only makes sense if the fact that some black male singers write songs with anti-female themes means famous white guys get a free pass to say nasty things to black women until every rapper everywhere cleans up his act. And, well, no. The rappers made me do it is a crappy excuse when your teenager uses it. It’s contemptible coming from grown men.
Meanwhile, Dr. Dre’s “Bitches Ain’t Sh;t” is a very good drama about a guy trying to avoid blaming his best friend for sleeping with his girl, since if he were to blame his best friend he’d have to try to kill him. You only need to believe that maybe, just maybe, black songwriters can grasp this “unreliable narrator” concept just like white people. (If you’re as pale as I am inside and out, approach the song by way of Ben Folds’ cover. It might help. And before or after, read or reread Borges’ “The Intruder.”) I’m not saying all rap is great art or all rap misogyny is ironical. But the cure for misogynistic music is not misogynistic radio hosts.
Finally, I’d like to propose the Jim Variation on the question of the hour. Don’t ask, “Do you think Don Imus should be fired?” Ask, “Would you fire him if you were his boss?” My answer is hell, yeah.
Comment by charlie —
April 11, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
Third grade boys, black and white, are calling girls bitches and hoes not from listening to Imus. He should get no free pass, but neither should the rappers.
Comment by thebewilderness —
April 11, 2007 @ 9:25 pm
What we have here is men talking about a man calling women whores. Other men call women whores, they argue. Men have been calling women whores for a long time, so a lot of men think it is amusing to call women whores. Every night, on the news, we have the men talking about the men calling women whores.
The only men who seem to be aware that women not only don’t like being called whores, but also buy stuff, are the advertisers.
Comment by Jim Henley —
April 11, 2007 @ 9:34 pm
charlie, my son’s in fifth grade in a racially mixed public school. I’ll ask him about that.
thebecetera: Thank heavens for advertisers, like I always say.
Comment by Mona —
April 11, 2007 @ 10:07 pm
The offensive thing about Kondracke and Imus using the argument is that it only makes sense if the fact that some black male singers write songs with anti-female themes means famous white guys get a free pass to say nasty things to black women until every rapper everywhere cleans up his act. And, well, no.
But a geriatric like Imus could well think he’s being cutting edge and hip talking like rappers. Who has seen any media trial of those myriad rappers that carry on like that akin to this weird fixation on and circus about Imus? He’s Don Imus, for god’s sake. It is what he does, and he is nasty to everybody.
I conclude blacks can get away with it, a white like Imus is denied the license.
Comment by Jackmormon —
April 11, 2007 @ 10:36 pm
An old white guy at the absolute top of his profession? Yeah, I’ll deny him the license to be cruel to people less powerful than him.
Not as though I’m in any position to deny or demand a damned thing of Imus.
Comment by Jim Henley —
April 11, 2007 @ 10:40 pm
Jacks, you could pull all your ads from the show . . .
Comment by Gsnorgathon —
April 11, 2007 @ 10:49 pm
“Who has seen any media trial of those myriad rappers…?”
.
Consider the context, Mona. How many of those myriad rappers are in Imus’s position? How many of them have various Washington insiders sucking up to them and covering for them? How many of them have major corporate sponsors?
Comment by Jon H —
April 11, 2007 @ 11:05 pm
How many of those rappers use the word in reference to specific women who aren’t skanky rappers themselves (and thus probably part of some calculated faux feud)?
I don’t think anyone could name half a dozen women called ho’s by a rapper. But you can name half a dozen women who Imus called ho’s.
That strikes me as being the difference. You had an aging, powerful, multi-millionaire calling specific young women ho’s, and not because of any behavior that could reasonably be called ho-like. Rather, it was simply because some were black, and the team was from Jersey. And the only reason they came to his attention was because they were playing at the top of their game.
And, frankly, if a rapper talks about unnamed ho’s, it might actually be justified. It’s unknowable unless you know who, if anyone, the writer or rapper had in mind. Certainly the word fits the money-grubbing losers in their entourages, but that’s mostly guys and they don’t get mentioned. I don’t doubt they encounter some number of groupies seeking to make a buck.
Comment by Jon H —
April 11, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
IMHO, the team should arrange a meeting with Imus in a very public location. Say, the outdoor area in which the Today show broadcasts.
And then they should stand him up, just never show, leaving him looking like a sad, bitter old geezer.
And if they make NBC look stupid too, so much the better.
Comment by charlie —
April 11, 2007 @ 11:21 pm
Jim,
No Dad, I don’t call girls bitches and hoes, and I don’t know any kids who do. Why do you ask?
That should be definitive.
I didn’t think so son. That Charlie, he don’t know sh;t.( I know you gotta use a semicolon when you’re talking to your kids.)
Comment by Thomas Nephew —
April 12, 2007 @ 1:03 am
Didn’t know the “magic negro” term, but I agree that’s a concern about this meeting too. I like Jon H’s idea best, but second best — in my expert opinion as a black (but partially white) woman, of course — is a really long meeting to wear Imus down to a husk, followed by a “no dice, we don’t accept his worthless apology” announcement. (And his apology is and will be worthless, he’s done stuff like this before, apologized before, and obviously done it again anyway.) Still, mercy is a virtue too, so who knows what they’ll do. It’s like they’re his jury now.
And yes, I’d fire him if it were up to me.
Comment by Jess Nevins —
April 12, 2007 @ 6:15 am
But, Jim, if we fire Imus, we’ll have to fire Glenn Beck, and Howard Stern, and Ann Coulter, and then who will the barbarians turn to for their entertainment?
Comment by Jim Henley —
April 12, 2007 @ 6:52 am
So, charlie, it would seem that: a) you’re quite certain my son can’t be trusted, which is really nice, and b) your assertion becomes unchallengeable. Sweet!
Comment by Mona —
April 12, 2007 @ 8:42 am
MSNBC all day Tuesday was interviewing various of the Rutgers women’s basketball team and their African-American coach. One interview after another, we heard about the pain, the agony, the harm that may last their lifetimes, and yet the courage and strength to overcome this evil and foulness. Sharpton lamented and held forth. The coach repeatedly spoke of overcoming “evil.” As one article quotes:
I’m sorry, but this is nuts. Don Imus is a shock jock member of the entertainment industry, and if young women are goig to publicly bestow on an unserious gasbag like Imus the power to cause them profound agony and “scar them for life” because he says “nappy-headed hos,” what will happen to them when some actual, profoundly serious trauma befalls them? I know a thing or two about devastating events interrupting one’s ability to function, and what a cretin like Don Imus would mutter about me, well, I’d be thrilled to have that be my worst problem.
I don’t give a rat’s behind about Imus or his fate. But I found the highly melodramatic victim-hood mongering unimpressive, and encouraging it in these young women is not to help them.
What he said is not “evil,” and to apply that word is to rob it of gravity — he thought he was being edgy and funny, because he is culturally tone deaf. He is an idiot, and hardly a clown anyone should permit to “scar them for life.”
Trackback by Asymmetrical Information —
April 12, 2007 @ 10:28 am
Other quote of the day…
The rappers made me do it is a crappy excuse when your teenager uses it. It’s contemptible coming from grown men. From Jim Henley…….
Comment by just sayin —
April 12, 2007 @ 10:48 am
Let’s not overlook Kondracke’s “they do live in a culture where a ‘ho’ is a commonly tossed-around term.” Says who? Does Kondracke know all 10 of these women are immersed in hip-hop culture? How? Perhaps there’s an assumption or two in there that could stand some examination.
Comment by Nell —
April 12, 2007 @ 11:15 am
And that ass McGuirk with him.
Comment by Bruce Baugh —
April 12, 2007 @ 11:20 am
It’s worth noting that misogynist rappers don’t get a free ride in black America. They get criticism both from the right and the left. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have both written and spoken very well on why it is a bad thing for young men to treat the women around them as presumptive prostitutes and gold diggers, and so have many, probably most, of the most prominent conservative black preachers in the country. This is an ongoing thing in black America, and one that’s very seldom reported on at all, let alone intelligently, in the general mass media.
So Imus isn’t getting anything that black rappers aren’t already getting.
Comment by Chris Quinones —
April 12, 2007 @ 11:35 am
Mona, Matee Ajavon is what, twenty? I’m prepared to cut her slack for youthful melodramatizing. Cool-headed indignation is untelegenic, anyhow.
Imus may be an idiot, but he’s a powerful idiot, powerful because he enables established power to act complacent by just these hurtful expressions. He picked a really sympathetic target this time around, which is why he’s getting the flak, but it really is no less excusable when he and his crew see fit to go after Hillary Clinton (who I really dislike, for the record) or Cardinal Egan (who I have no fondness for, either) the same way. It’s not actionable in those cases, but it’s not cool or funny, either.
In answer to your question, Jim, I’d have fired him a while ago.
Comment by observer —
April 12, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
But the cure for misogynistic music is not misogynistic radio hosts.
We can agree on that, I hope. However, you still seem to be gliding by the fact that the kind of garbage Imus spouted is normative for a wide swath of young black people. The words in question are deemed harmless until someone in the wrong group says them, whereupon by magic they become deadly and must be paid for.
This is tribalism. It is a recipe for disaster. I wish you could see that.
To answer your question: I would have fired Imus years and years ago, and urged him to join his intellectual twin Howard Stern on the alternative channels, because his schtick was lame, stupid and hateful.
Comment by MQ —
April 12, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
You miss the point of the “rapper defense”. The not-so-hidden message is: black people are worthless anyway, they themselves admit it in their foul “music”. So why can’t white people get in on the fun and call them worthless too? It’s not fair!
Comment by MQ —
April 12, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
Also, I don’t think Don Imus and Howard Stern are “intellectual twins”, Imus is much worse and has less (read: no) genuine wit to leaven the foul stuff.
Comment by observer —
April 12, 2007 @ 1:14 pm
You miss the point of the “rapper defense”. The not-so-hidden message is: black people are worthless anyway, they themselves admit it in their foul “music”. So why can’t white people get in on the fun and call them worthless too? It’s not fair!
No, I don’t miss that point, I find it absurd, stupid and no more worthy of comment then when a 3-year old whines “It’s not fair!”. If I must engage in the ritual of denunciation, then fine, consider this ridiculous “rapper defense” to be denounced as childish, stupid, an insult to the intelligence of anyone who reads it, and last but not least arguably another kind of racist comment. Is that enough, or do I have to go on longer to convince you that I’m not missing the point, I’m ignoring Imus as I have for years?
Now can you address the larger issue, which is that such obscene and obnoxious talk is normative for far too many young people in the black community, and is conributing to the development of tribalism in this country, which is a very bad thing indeed? That patterning a life after someone like Calvin Broaddus is a recipe for disaster, and so the people who make a lot of money off of glamorizing thugs such as “Snoop”, fittycent and the rest are doing a huge disservice not only to the black community, but to the country at large?
Also, I don’t think Don Imus and Howard Stern are “intellectual twins”, Imus is much worse and has less (read: no) genuine wit to leaven the foul stuff.
We’ll just have to disagree on this. From my perspective, you’re basically arguing that a heavily used multi-day-old cat litter box is much worse than a fully loaded diaper from a baby with colic. I don’t see the difference, myself, and more than once have taken both to the same dumpster, where they belong.
Comment by Mona —
April 12, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
I would guestimate that her black coach is 50ish. Coach repeatedly used the word “evil” to describe what she was implying is a world-devastating event of epic proportions, and for a moment I thought the white, male reporter was going to give her a hug — he started leaning into her with arm moving toward her, and then he seemed to pull back having thought better if it. But you would think he was dealing with a mother who had just lost her toddler to a child rapist and murderer.
One after another, these young women — who had been briefed and assembled for the occasion of the press conference — spoke of awful pain and agony, and as if this was the most traumatic thing one could encounter. All of which is rank bullshit.
The adults advising these young women should have encouraged them to take the attitude toward Imus: “…and your cowboy hat and the horse it rode in on.” The choice to instead act as martyred victims suffering unimaginable pain and “scarring,” truly made me sick.
They are talking about Don Imus. He’s a mindless pile of shit, who hurls insults at almost everybody, and no sensible person takes him seriously. Disdain is the proper response, not some ongoing drama, in which now the women apparently are going to meet with Imus, said meeting to be “mediated” by an African-American minister. So there can be, you know, “healing.”
Come! On!
And btw, in my mixed community, black and white alike make cracks about “hos.” It is thought to be amusing, especially — but not only — by the under 30 crowd.
Comment by Madeline F —
April 12, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
Hey, Mona: Gangrene!
heeheehee.
But seriously, there’s just no point mentioning to you that it actually sucks for a person to have it shoved into their face that no matter how well they do their thing/play basketball, they’re going to be blown off for being the wrong color and the wrong sex. Because you’re clear that color doesn’t matter.
observer: Now can you address the larger issue, which is that [black people aren’t doing what I say they should, oh wait, Bruce Baugh points out that they are, but I’m going to ignore that so I can keep on blaming them for excluding themselves from society.]
No, I’m afraid that the issue here is an @sshole getting called on his crap.
Comment by Norma —
April 12, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
No one said “Rappers made me do it,” but “Rappers say it” all the time. If you grew up hearing Sonny and Cher singing “I got you Babe” you’d probably be shocked to learn that “babe” is a pejorative to many, but you wouldn’t say “Cher made me do it” when someone decided to fire you. Ho is part of the language and culture of rap, which is sold primarily to whites. So just what are they saying? These rich rappers bad mouthing women.
Comment by Mona —
April 12, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
Madeline writes: But seriously, there’s just no point mentioning to you that it actually sucks for a person to have it shoved into their face that no matter how well they do their thing/play basketball, they’re going to be blown off for being the wrong color and the wrong sex.
Yeah, these women are being blown off and their lives are headed down the toilet, because the Ultimate Arbiter of Who is Respected (reverently pausing and genuflecting, speaking in hushed tones) Don Imus said insulting things about them… like he does about everybody.
They should just call Kevorkian now, if only that guy wasn’t in prison. My life would be instantly unmanageable if Don Imus called me a “ho.” I’d crumble and be “scarred” forever. Never would it occur to me to announce that Imus is a creature of the media and a true whore, and I don’t give a sh*t what he thinks or says.
Comment by observer —
April 12, 2007 @ 5:49 pm
Madeline, call Don Imus anything you want to. Take him out to his ranch in wherever it is and bury him up to his neck in an anthill, if it makes you feel better. None of that is going to change what BET, MTV, the various awards voted on by the fans are pushing. But, hey, if you’d rather focus all your ire on Imus, than admit that there’s a real problem in the black community that’s so bad even Al Sharpton finally has noticed it, carry on.
Comment by Shouting Thomas —
April 13, 2007 @ 7:16 am
This has now devolved into a full-fledged hysteria, of the type so often portrayed on South Park. In fact, I’m waiting for Sourth Park’s Imus episode, and also looking forward to Mad TV this weekend.
What a parade of sanctimony!
I can see it now. South Park’s residents in full frenzy, carrying pitchforks and placards through the street, setting fire to buildings and cars.
Draw and quarter Imus! Hang him!
When the mob gets this hysterical, you’ve got to wonder if Imus didn’t touch a nerve that needed jolting. Mustn’t look at craziness of black community. Mustn’t look at craziness of blacks’ protected species status. Mastn’t look at vicious racism of black community.
I stopped listening to Imus years ago, because he was tiresome. This mob mentality, this outpouring of loathsome sanctimony, just about has me convinced that he really has something to say and that I should pay attention.
Comment by Avram —
April 13, 2007 @ 1:01 pm
Wow, Shouting Thomas, you make yourself easy to play.
Comment by roger —
April 13, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
Looking at the clip of Imus and his sidekick doing the hos and jiggaboos routine, it was pretty clear that, like children saying some word like whore and then saying, but it is in the bible, Mom, they immediately sought some black reference as though this would fool anybody. Oh, the jigaboos thing was just like Spike Lee! Funny, jigaboos has been used a lot, in my experience, by, say, the KKK. So they could have said, “hey, they are like the jigaboos, like David Duke says, in that speech he made, you know?” Hmm. Wonder why they didn’t use that reference? Same thing, right? It would have been a knee slapper.
That this rhetorical shell game has apparently worked, for years, for Imus is… amazing. It is transparent to a fifth grader. The elite always turn out to be so much dumber, immature, and clueless than you ever think they are.
Trackback by Pajamas Media —
April 13, 2007 @ 8:30 pm
Race to the Bottom:…
The contest between rappers versus Imus. Jim Henley thinks “the rappers made me do it is a crappy excuse when your teenager uses it. It’s contemptible coming from grown men.”……
Comment by RJ —
April 14, 2007 @ 7:46 am
For me, this is all about a person who I consider (and have for some time) is a sadist. And what does a sadist do when using words? Beats down others. Does this not describe Imus? How about the humiliation that Jerry Springer and Howard Stern present to their “guests” over the years? Sadistic behaviors with an audience, on tv and radio. Freud would love this arguement.
Comment by Noreen —
April 14, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
The bloody sport of public humiliation is a means of social control
We are all playing a game. Let’s name the game: “THE SPORT OF PUBLIC HUMILIATION”
Who are the players? White, rich, old, men (WROM); Some “honorary white men,” as Ann Coulter
Who are the designated humiliation targets? The “others:”
Minorities
Lesbians/Gays
Poor; Less educated
Undocumented Immigrants
Do WROM laugh at other white men?
YES, sometimes to make fun of unfortunate, shared and hopefully transient circumstances which can affect all gentlemen, like impotence, going bald, etc.
Going to jail, being indicted because of fraud or because of racism are not laughing matters. That is the situation that could use a “gentleman’s agreement” to cover it up.
Why is this happening?
The homogeneous control of white people over the rest of the social compact is diluting. More and more holes in the US internal control system; even there is the risk of being inundated by immigrant masses without control…Human rights movement, feminism, diminishing number of white men, possible Iraq war defeat, loss of the primacy in production in certain sacred products, (like cars), are part of the varied elements that put white male supremacy at risk.
Someone has to be left standing to defend the right of the white male to decide who is a “ho,” (like Howard Stern also does), and who doesn’t belong…. What to do? Use humiliation as a control device! Humiliate whoever is less than them, so WROM can maintain a feeling of supremacy….
What is the expected outcome of playing this sport?
Humiliated targets need to shut up, to suck it up, to take the high road, not to complain or God forbid! retaliate in any form…If they go to the media, WROM can expect that the general public will miss too much their sick control system, and will approve of maintaining the sport of humiliating others to still perceive to be in control.
The final Don Imus humiliation is not that he had to apologize to Rutgers; it was that his own class of WROM from the corporative state had to disown him in order to save sales!