Sickening Islamic Extremism
By Mona
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If you missed it, a British schoolteacher in the Sudan, Gillian Gibbons, has been jailed for 15 days after allowing her Sudanese pupils to name a teddy bear Mohammed. Throngs of deranged, knife-wielding religious fanatics literally want her head.
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Well, the right-wing commentators who spend every waking moment looking for reasons — real and contrived — to shriek about the coming Caliphate and the Scary Muslims are, of course, having a field day. But while their prescriptions and warmongering lust are wrong, I’m with Kevin Drum:
There isn’t much we can do about this [horribly travesty against Ms. Gibbons], but it’s still appalling and worth
Oops, I failed to observe that my man Jim has already been on this story.
Comment by Dave Woycechowsky —
November 30, 2007 @ 4:49 pm
1. Who knows what the protestors think the teacher did? (That is a rhetorical question)
2. Yeah, media is pretty cheesed of they didn’t get their lashing vid. THAT would have boosted the ratings and make no mistake.
3. 10 days of jail plus deportation? Not good. Then again *shrug*
Comment by Eric Martin —
November 30, 2007 @ 5:45 pm
Oops, I failed to observe that my man Jim has already been on this story.
Kind of Jenna of you…
Comment by the talking dog —
November 30, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
This should all do wonders for Sudan’s burgeoning tourist industry. Remind me to sell my shares in the Khartoum Teddy Bear Factory.
Hundreds of thousands have been killed in ethnic violence in Sudan (Darfur, remember?… and there was an even bigger conflict in the South of Sudan…) just in the last few years; OBL himself ran rampant in the place; Sudan may be helping Pakistan and others with nuclear proliferation, and lots of other… troubling stuff that puts Ms. Gibbons case in its rather proper (i.e. VERY MINOR) perspective. So while I kind of sympathize with Ms. Gibbons on the one hand, on the other, I think she’s an idiot, for not quite understanding the rather touchy, albeit insane, local sensibilities, and not showing the appropriate obeisance, i.e., don’t call the teddy bear Mohammed. In the end, she can count the day she is placed on a plane out of that s***hole, with her neck still attached to her head, as the luckiest of her life.
But my real point is that the rest of us need some perspective, and have to realize that the rest of the world understands all too well that, by and large, the only time most of us pay attention to places like Sudan is when something happens to a Western Caucasian Anglo, like Ms. Gibbons.
It has a double problem of (1) pointing out really good targets if one wants attention in the West, and (2) reinforcing the view that we are self-absorbed and arrogant. Just something to think about.
Comment by y81 —
November 30, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
I agree with the talking dog: any Westerner who would go teach children in a s***hole African country is a complete idiot who basically deserves whatever she gets. I for one intend to stay right here in NYC making as much money as I possibly can, and let those African schoolchildren see if Allah will save them. Now that’s libertarianism!
Comment by Derek Copold —
November 30, 2007 @ 6:32 pm
The British government was right to try to intervene on Gibbons’ behalf, and I’m glad she won’t be flogged, but there is something to talking dog and y81’s comments. Gibbons strikes me as something of a Mrs. Jellyby. Western travelers going to places like this (Muslim and non-Muslim) should be told in no uncertain terms, “It’s their country, their rules. If you cross them, don’t expect us to go to war for you.”
Comment by Dave Woycechowsky —
November 30, 2007 @ 6:43 pm
Western travelers going to places like this (Muslim and non-Muslim) should be told in no uncertain terms, “It’s their country, their rules. If you cross them, don’t expect us to go to war for you.”
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=325990&area=/insight/insight__africa/
Comment by Mona —
November 30, 2007 @ 7:17 pm
But what reasonable person is going to think that Muslim children would name a teddy bear in a fashion that violates the religious tenets pounded into their heads? One cannot be expected to know every single nuance of the foreign culture, and draconian punishment for what seems to be a simple ignorance that Muslim kids were violating their own culture’s taboos should be overlooked for penal purposes. I mean, is there a Sudanese statute Gibson should have known about that prohibits naming beloved stuffed animals after the Prophet?
Comment by the talking dog —
November 30, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
But what reasonable person is going to think that Muslim children would name a teddy bear in a fashion that violates the religious tenets pounded into their heads? One cannot be expected to know every single nuance of the foreign culture, and draconian punishment for what seems to be a simple ignorance that Muslim kids were violating their own culture’s taboos should be overlooked for penal purposes.
Has the Mohammed cartoon fiasco been lost on all of us? Or the fatwa against Rushdie? There is nothing REASONABLE about any of this. Ms. Gibbons placed herself in a country where asing “what is reasonable” is in itself an unreasonable analysis. Everyone who can read is on notice that people in certain Muslim countries– especially the poorer and more backwards ones– are peculiarly likely to be mortally offended at any Westerner invoking the name of the prophet FOR ANYTHING.
But let’s look in the mirror. We have been locking up 5 and 6 year old children IN THIS COUNTRY for behavior that only a few years ago (say, when I was 5 or 6) might have earned us a spanking, or loss of allowance (or maybe even “counseling”), but now may lead to trial as an adult followed by hard time.
Which is exactly my point: as this country moves ever closer to our own insane version of Sharia law, then how DARE we get too upset about the inanities and insanities of other countries and cultures… ESPECIALLY when we only care in the first place because it’s a sort of cute, dotty White Anglo woman involed.
Comment by Anonymo —
November 30, 2007 @ 8:07 pm
We have been locking up 5 and 6 year old children IN THIS COUNTRY for behavior that only a few years ago (say, when I was 5 or 6) might have earned us a spanking, or loss of allowance (or maybe even “counseling”), but now may lead to trial as an adult followed by hard time.
What exactly are you referring to? And notwithstanding the answer, show me a five- or six-year-old tried as an adult.
Comment by KCinDC —
November 30, 2007 @ 8:21 pm
What evidence do we have that the average person in Sudan (or even a significant percentage of the people in Sudan) is mortally offended by the fact that the teacher did not intervene to prevent the children from naming the stuffed bear after one of their classmates?
When large demonstrations occur in countries ruled by oppressive governments and those demonstrations are not against the government, then it’s usually the case that they’re occurring because the government wants them to occur, not because of some popular groundswell. Moreover, in countries ruled by oppressive governments the average person doesn’t necessarily have a reality-based view of events (hell, that’s true even in less oppressed countries), so it’s quite likely that those who are demonstrating, even if they are actually mortally offended, are offended about some version of events quite different from what really happened.
Comment by Mona —
November 30, 2007 @ 8:27 pm
What Anonymo asked: What exactly are you referring to? And notwithstanding the answer, show me a five- or six-year-old tried as an adult [in the U.S.]
Comment by the talking dog —
November 30, 2007 @ 8:33 pm
The case of the six year old carted to jail is mentioned by Bob Herbert in this Grey Lady column. The “charged as adults” is, of course, “rhetorical.” Hence I used “may”; it hasn’t yet happened here, but we’re sure going that way. I can’t find examples of five year old, but 6 seemed good enough.
It is, at this point, well documented we held a number of juveniles (as presently defined) at Guantanamo Bay, and still hold some who at least came there as juveniles. The recent case of the rape by 8 and 9 year olds in Georgia also fits this bill.
As far as I am concerned, Ms. Gibbons, as a GROWN-UP, has infinitely more capacity to commit a crime, even one we consider nutty and unreasonable (though close allies of this country, such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and others might well consider her actions to be of extreme egregiousness.)
Anonymo makes an excellent point re: “spontaneous” demonstrations in the Muslim street… i.e., someone in power WANTS such demonstrations to take place, for their own reasons. And just because Marx called religion the opiate of the masses doesn’t mean it isn’t. Just something else one must think about when potentially committing offense in a Muslim country… especially a notoriously backward one.
Comment by bob mcmanus —
November 30, 2007 @ 10:49 pm
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/kids-on-trial-by-digby-new-york-times.html
“Three boys, ages 8 and 9, were charged Monday with raping an 11-year-old girl last week, court officials and police said.”
Ok, so not 5 or 6 in this case
Comment by bob mcmanus —
November 30, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
And the update by digby says it was referred to juvy, but the confusion is understandable…if this is at all the story he had in mind
Comment by Tom Scudder —
November 30, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
One point on the case noted by Meph at Aqoul is that the kids who go to this school are the upper, upper classes. So for your average Yusuf Sudanese, there’s a certain satisfaction to seeing the hoity-toity upper-crust types dealt a blow, regardless of what the reason for it is.
Comment by y81 —
November 30, 2007 @ 11:10 pm
Well, despite what bob mcmanus says, I think this country is reasonably safe, at least if you have money, but, as I said, when insane do-goodism leads you to travel to Third World countries to help “lesser breeds without the law,” you are a fool and whatever happens to you is basically your own fault. Those people should be left to stew in their own poverty and misery, that’s the only way they’ll learn.
Comment by Karen —
November 30, 2007 @ 11:33 pm
There might have been some merit to the “let ‘em stew in their own poverty” view before TV put incredibly inaccurate views of Western life into the cafes and shops and (a few, lucky and wealthy) 3rd world living rooms, but not really any more. The “lesser breeds” didn’t get to see just how miserable they are compared to us. There are more than a few people who see that they’re poorer than we are as inspiration not to work harder over there, but to steal over here. Or bomb, shoot, and otherwise punish us for being lucky. The do-gooders at least present an alternative view of the West to MTV.
I think that this is an excellent example of the worst sort of government exploiting a misunderstanding. Find a few disgruntled clerics and gin up outrage at someone who isn’t, you know, screwing up the country. “Pay no attention to the kleptocrats in the ministry. . . “
Comment by teh —
December 1, 2007 @ 12:11 am
Indeed, while the people on the street demanding her execution deserve all the scorn they get, we shouldn’t forget that the state officials who are stirring up religious rage for political purposes deserve most of the blame.
Comment by Eric the .5b —
December 1, 2007 @ 4:02 am
Karen, no offense, but that sounds like the money version of the “they hate us for our freedom” argument.
Comment by Dave Woycechowsky —
December 1, 2007 @ 8:56 am
We are getting Ms. Gibbons side of the story from Ms. Gibbons representatives.
The Sudanese are getting their side of the story however they get it — perhaps from witnesses, perhaps from liars. They probably think that more is going on than a teddy bear incident, or that the teddy bear incident involved some aggravating circumstances.
We assume that Ms. Gibbons side of the story is the true one. They assume that their side of the story is the true one.
This is why it is better to have open trials and written, detailed judicial decisions. I still have not seen a Sudanese source asked what she or he thinks the bad conduct was here. They should ask that guy with the sword, on live teevee and with a translator if necessary, because he is the one getting us most riled here in the States. I would like to know what he thinks really happened here that insulted his Islam.
Comment by dsquared —
December 1, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
I think she’s an idiot, for not quite understanding the rather touchy, albeit insane, local sensibilities, and not showing the appropriate obeisance, i.e., don’t call the teddy bear Mohammed
Nonsense. There was no such local sensibility. It was made up on the spot as an excuse to take a hostage during a tricky period for the Khartoum government in the negotiations over UN forces in Darfur, plus a rather cynical attempt to get the local mob riled up over something else so that they didn’t notice a whole load of infidel boots dropping onto Sudanese dust. If she hadn’t called the teddy bear Mohammed, it’s quite possible they’d have chucked her in jail for refusing to name the bear Mohammed.
I notice that no moderate bureaucrats have come forward to condemn this action on the part of their fellow bureaucrats.
Comment by Uncle Kvetch —
December 1, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
Damn, what a buzzkill you are, dsquared. All people wanted out of this story was further proof that Mooslims are crazy, and a chance to come up with catchy/funny neologisms based on this premise (the coinage ISLAMO-NUTS featured on the front page of the New York Post a few days back). Is that too much to ask?
But NOOOOO–you have to spoil all the fun with a bunch of boring “context” and “facts” and stuff. You must be a lot of fun at parties.
Comment by y81 —
December 2, 2007 @ 9:02 pm
Well, from what dsquared is saying, the basic problem is UN forces in Darfur, i.e., Westerners meddling where they aren’t wanted and won’t do any good. I repeat what I said, out-and-out rapacious imperialism has a very mixed record of success (where success if defined as killing foreigners and/or taking their stuff without getting killed yourself), but do-gooder intervention has an unblemished record of failure.