To Deny That is to Deny Human Nature
Spencer Ackerman on the wages of torture.
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Comment by Thoreau —
May 8, 2008 @ 11:57 am
I’m reluctant to go with the argument that being tortured at Gitmo turned previously innocent people into terrorists. It could very well be true, but it’s an argument that I’m reluctant to take up for a few reasons:
1) There’s an alternative explanation that makes just as much sense and reinforces an equally important point: In the absence of a sound process for determining guilt or innocence, whoever’s calling the shots at Gitmo is making lots of mistakes in both directions, keeping the innocent behind bars while releasing the guilty. This is a call for a sounder process with rules of evidence and impartial arbiters. What people forget is that a well-run system of justice may be imperfect but is still a more reliable path to the truth than unconstrained executive power. Also, a well-run system of justice forces the executive to think things through, show evidence, and make better decisions.
2) There are a lot of people in this world who have been tortured, and most of them have not turned to violent radicalism. This is an especially important point to make in a country that desperately needs dissent, because we have a choice in how we respond to the crimes of the state. We can respond with violence and join our “leaders” on the list of criminals, or we can respond non-violently and occupy the moral high ground.
Comment by T.J. Madison —
May 8, 2008 @ 12:33 pm
One of the things that struck me when I saw the pictures of Abu Ghraib was the realization that the torture victims had to be killed. Letting them go free (regardless of their guilt or innocence) was profoundly stupid, because if they didn’t hate the US before, they sure as heck were enemies now. Torture logically commits one to a course of action that ends in the indefinite imprisonment/murder of the torture victims.
Spock: You have to shoot. If you are logical, you have to shoot.
Valeris: I do not want to.
Spock: What you want is irrelevant. What you’ve chosen is at hand.
Comment by Just a Quick Question —
May 8, 2008 @ 1:16 pm
How about we drop the word torture and just say that the Gitmo detention facility is really a terrorist factory? If he were sane at the start, three years of solitary is enough to break anyone.
Comment by mds —
May 8, 2008 @ 3:57 pm
It doesn’t have to be “most” when you’ve been torturing as many people as this administration apparently has. Why not apply the “one percent doctrine” by considering that torturing innocent people just might sufficiently piss off the victims or those that knew them?
Comment by bobbo —
May 8, 2008 @ 4:38 pm
Of course, the Administration’s through the looking glass argument is that this is why we have to detain them forever: sure, they may be innocent, sure, they weren’t a threat before we detained them - but now, thanks to our detaining them despite their innocence - they have become a danger.